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Big Bopper the Whopper

    Surprised that AM didn't get a look in here, core item against certain line-ups, even get it before manta vs like a doom


      I agree with T. The title says "carries", but there are only four heroes talked about specifically, and I think other carries are worth a look. AM, Storm, Ursa, etc. Although, these heroes I mentioned are not as popular in the pro-meta right now as the ones mentioned in the article.

      MM.Ugh Brock Hall

        Being a huge fan of Drow, I'd also point out that getting aghs also means you are proccing on three heroes. This can be fantastic with frost arrows, deso, diffusal, skadi, crit stick, and can provide an extra opportunity to release maelstrom lightning. It also provides extra reach as it splits from the target.

        MM.Ugh Brock Hall

          I should correct my previous statement, it will proc on three units, not necessarily on heroes. Still, the extra reach is really helpful for Drow in teamfights where she wants to keep her distance. Hurricane pike is nice, but this can provide that extra layer of damage spread from distance so your team doesn't lose the aura while you're dead.


            The reason AM is not mentioned is because there is no question as to whether you should get the item on the hero. Most players almost always do, except if the enemy team has a Legion Commander, the only case where Linken's is better.

            Ursa's Aghs is also very good against heroes like Enigma, Void or LC and is like Morphling's old attribute shift which makes it pretty good in pubs, but is dealt with in professional games.

            The real question is if Aghs on heroes like Slark, Wraith King or Sven are even worth at all when played as cores.


              Scepter is quite expensive on pos 4. :(

              MM.Ugh Brock Hall


                Expanding on that a little, aghs has two functions, varying for each hero: growth progression and countering. The cases in the article are of the latter, which makes sense because that is the function that requires a decision to be made. There's no reason to talk about heroes that don't sit on the fence.

                You're right that there is no question that AM buys aghs. It's similar to how Tiny used to work. A lot of carries have skills that work better with the general upgrades that items give, like PL getting diffusal. With the old Tiny, it was almost like leveling up, the hero was balanced around the assumption that everyone got aghs and the hero was not meant to work without it. PL can get by without diffusal (ostensibly), it's not baked into his balance. Tiny had aghs baked into his balance, and now it's hard baked into his skills. So yeah, AM is the same way, and he now is balanced around the assumption that he WILL get aghs.

                I wonder if he will get changes similar to Tiny in the future.


                  you don't write about meepo position 1, aghanim is a must.


                    Do you guys want our writter to write every single of one scepter on the hero? Just read it. Hate to see people give bad judge into a reading....


                      Meepo player here can confirm that aghs is no longer a must; I've hardly gotten the item since 7.00.


                        Typical KawaiiSocks named 3 heroes and gg lul,ss have a good agh and he nearly always can have space for it.

                        breast aware

                          Typical herald comment above, still trying to figure out what a carry is

                          Wild Forest Daddy


                            Black Hole and Duel silence you on top of the actual stun/taunt, so you can't use spells at all while affected by them.


                              Look, for the hard of thinking, it's really quite simple. These are heroes that do not "have" to get an aghs as part of their standard build. It is not an article about carries who always buy aghs, but about carries where it is situational and when you should buy aghs.


                                What about Jugg? for me that's one of the biggest aghs debates on a carry.. whether you want to be right-click DPS or a walking omnislash.

                                G.W Honors

                                  Wow look at all those archons want to get antimage aghs mentioned.But aghs and linken have no difference if your enemy is smart enough to break linken (which never happens in that bracket i guess) with cheap ability or item and linken gives you more stats and regen for stat hungry hero like am,makes linken better in many situations.


                                    SF by Sumail!

                                    Sleight of My Fist In You...

                                      just buy both linkens and aghs on am = impossible to get locked down without extremely focused co ordination which will never happen in pubs

                                      MM.Ugh Brock Hall


                                        It still reflects though, so it's more costly to break than just linkens. Sure you get more regen from linkens but it's moderately more expensive and only blocks on a longer cooldown. Buying Aghs gives you the effects of two items and doesn't even require activation, letting you get back to farming offensive carry items.


                                          Black Hole and Duel silence you on top of the actual stun/taunt, so you can't use spells at all while affected by them.

                                          You're right, I forgot.

                                          @Brock Hall

                                          I was gonna mention PL Aghs, since it's neither for a hard core or hard support, like Sven, Chaos Knight or Weaver, but is definitely useful. I saw singsing pick it up in a game against Ramzes and Solo stack when pushed back and forced to defend high ground, and he's a really good PL player, winning most of the time as a first pick.

                                          MM.Ugh Brock Hall


                                            To be clear, I was using PL as an example of a hero that doesn't usually rely on aghs as a core item.

                                            Just making sure we're on the same page.

                                            I'm curious about the matchup though. Assuming the bounces can go to illusions (I'm not up on PL these days) it would be good against CK but I could see it being useful against summons as well. Man could you farm with it. With that in mind, you could make the case that it's a better farming tool than radiance, again assuming you can bounce to neutrals.


                                              That SF build was by Sumail. It clearly says it in the Match that you linked.

                                              chao vritra

                                                i have not read this yet but based on the title everyone below 4k needs to read this lol. Lost a game recently because our carry riki wanted to go battlefury crystalis aghs over better items.


                                                  Ss is a carry


                                                    @Brock Hall
                                                    Pl aghs bounces to anything not allied or magic immune, and seems to prioritize heroes and hero illusions over creeps of any kind. It IS a good farming tool, but it severely reduces your early game damage and threat, essentially forcing you into a caster role until you get your diffusal or whatever other damage item you're gonna build around. Personally I always get it eventually, as it murders supports without you having to be in the fray to do it yourself, but it's not something typically gotten before 20 minutes unless I've had a good game.

                                                    MM.Ugh Brock Hall

                                                      Ok so you're saying it's not really a question of if but when. That's fair. Although I would still say it seems like the smart move is to get radiance late game just to apply the partial blind on the enemy. Getting both doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation either. PL isn't cancer anymore after all.


                                                        Sing went Aquila, Drums, Diffusal, BOTs and then Aghs when he could no longer split push and had to defend high ground against a Medusa. Picking radiance is fine unless the enemy has a lot of AOE to kill illusions with the likes of Sand King and find the real PL since it doesn't give any stats.


                                                          Обидно, что ты перестал переводить на русский :(


                                                            Aghanim is core on luna, period. It effectively more than double the damage from your ultimate, with a 0.3 sec interval instead of 0.6. Furthermore its cast range is insane, thus reducing the need for a bkb, (once luna dies her ultimate stops). She can "snip" off a couple of low health heroes with her ultimate. If the opponent goes bkb, a refresher will be a good counter, stay at the back and wait for their bkbs to expire.


                                                              Wow, i can't believe no one mentioned invoker.... Or is it just assumed he always has to have aghs?

                                                              Hive Overmind

                                                                i f*$#ïng hate magina.


                                                                  Bkb is only a partial counter to Luna aghs because it just means the other non-bkb enemy heroes soak up more beams





                                                                      I think that @J-P1 makes a good point : I would like for the Juggernaut case to be discussed as well. Unlike AM, it is not clear to me in which games you should get Agh's on Jugg. The hero is incredibly flexible in terms of item builds, and Aghs seems like a very good option, but when should you get it ? Is it a matter of countering other heroes or a matter of salvaging a game going poorly ?


                                                                        big mistake leaving out Antimage here.

                                                                        MM.Ugh Brock Hall


                                                                          I'd say at this point it's almost outdated. Jugg can put out 14 at lvl25, which is as many as you're likely going to need. It's a cool concept but considering you will get only 3 more jumps at max 225 dmg each, it feels like you'd be better off just autoattacking the hero you want to be hitting and getting a few more double strikes.

                                                                          Dotabuff statistics for items are wildly difficult to parse (town portal scroll has sub 50% WR on jugg for some reason), but if they are to be believed at all, you'd be better off getting manta, butterfly, blink, or abyssal, all of which have higher winrates AND more games purchased.

                                                                          That being said, over 700 games have been played with hurricane pike and it also has a better winrate than aghs on jugg so like I said, take it with a grain of salt.


                                                                            Anti-Mage Agh's is pretty straight forward. You take it against people like Juggernaut, Storm Spirit or Necrolyte.

                                                                            @Brock Hall

                                                                            Town portal scroll has a bad winrate because it's cheap so Juggernaut will have it almost every game. However it will appear in slightly fewer winning games, where Juggernaut can afford Boots of Travel, so it's winrate will be a little lower than 50%.

                                                                            MM.Ugh Brock Hall


                                                                              In theory you would buy a portal scroll literally every game, so it should have exactly the same winrate as jugg (currently 57) instead of lower (currently tp sits at 37 for jugg). Perhaps a better understanding of how winrate is determined or what constitutes a purchase for the dotabuff stats is needed, but the fact remains that the statistics cannot be read and used as directly as, say, overall winrate can.


                                                                                The link you provided for "SF by Arteezy" actually shows SF by Sumail.

                                                                                Yohan Aquila

                                                                                  Is aghs on razor gpos all the time? No one seem to mention it