General Discussion

General DiscussionBehavior Score use Confirmed again

Behavior Score use Confirmed again in General Discussion
Hatrið mun sigra

    Ideally yes, but you have to consider that the avg bhs is around 8.5k in numbers, so basically a B in letters, if not more, maybe even normal. So people with really low bhs are much less than the rest of the players, resulting in increased queue time for sure, but from what I've observed it's like Volvo doesn't mind matching low bhs teams against high bhs teams when there's the need to find players with similar mmr to put in a game. The reason why I think this is because a lot of games are just ridiculously unbalanced, things like 28-5 happen pretty frequently in very low bhs games and it gives me the idea that the other team is made of people who are generally nice to each other or at least not bad players and feeders. And it wouldn't even go against this "fair play" thing Volvo wants to promote with bhs, 'cause low bhs people would still get what they deserve (toxic people like themselves) and high bhs people would be treated nicely, the way they treat others (and even have an advantage in terms of cooperation and general relaxed atmosphere that allows to focus and play better).

    Jacked

      yea no one in their right mind ever thought that low bs vs high bs made sense. and yet that's the only model that works if hidden pool were real.

      i don't know why people still argue like it makes sense to match low bs with high bs.

      and a lot of times AGAINST low bhs people, but it happens quite often that the other team is much more relaxed, coordinated and stuff and seems nothing like a bunch of toxic ragers, which means it has high bhs people.

      or maybe you need to understand what cognitive bias is.


      Sometimes high bhs people get matched WITH low bhs people tho, I've had teammates that were too nice to be toxic.

      take a minute guys, to appreciate the thought process of someone who has zero understanding of human cognition, and who has zero logic when it comes to analyzing real world data and making observations.

      because this individual had teammates who were too nice to be toxic = has to be high bhs is matched with low bhs. what the actual fuck at least put some effort and critical thinking into this if you want to have a fruitful discussion.

      Jacked

        this is straight up evidence that no one on this forum should bother discussing anything with hidden pool theorists and retards like mafioso and SLQ. like seriously guys, look at these statements. look at how they analyze the data, churn their own subjectve experience into it, add a mixture of completely upside-down logic, and then come to conclusions like they actually made some kind of a point.

        what is the point of discussing anything with pigeons. rofl

        This comment was edited
        Riguma Borusu

          I have ultra low BHS (F) and so do my teamates, and while they are often just incompetent (including me), they are actually generally nice. The other team must be thinking we all have As and Bs LOL.

          When you are looking for an excuse, guess you can just disregard common sense completely and go with whatever suits you.

          This comment was edited
          Hatrið mun sigra

            Maan not the attention wh.ore again. Is there a way to mute this fucktard?

            Hatrið mun sigra

              What excuse lmao, as if my life depended on this game and I actually gave a fuck about what kids think of my mmr on an online forum o.o
              Are you for real?

              Riguma Borusu

                Scientists unanimously agree that if you put "HIDDEN POOL" in your name, you are just looking for an excuse for the situation you are in, putting the responsibility for it onto a broken system or bad teammates. I honestly think everyone who believes they are in a hidden pool is a brain dead retard.

                You have no idea how many games i have played with teammates with names with "hidden pool" or "all muted" where they were the only toxic piece of shit in the game and everyone else more or less just tried to get along and win the game.

                But no. The "hidden pool" or "all muted" person always knows the best. In their own world, obviously. He's the kind of a person who last picks picks slark into an offlane axe undying, but then blames you for losing the lane, because, again, he knows the best.

                This comment was edited
                Hatrið mun sigra

                  And I believe that people who still think hidden pool doesn't exist are a bunch of low IQ monkeys who are so arrogant they think they know how the system works better than Valve itself, retarded kids who deny the statements made by a Valve developer, who go against what is explained in the updates about matchmaking.

                  That's your experience. You have no idea how many games I have played with dumbshits flaming each other from the picking phase for no reason, walking down mid if not given the lane they want, feeding endlessly 'cause just terrible, going retarded builds, going afk farming, with shadow amulets, blocking camps and shit. Not sometimes, too often to be normal. And this makes you fucking question the whole thing. And then you see other people can relate. And then Valve itself confirms the existence of different pools. So what the fuck are we even talking about.

                  "He's the kind of a person who last picks picks slark into an offlane axe undying, but then blames you for losing the lane, because, again, he knows the best." Again, that's your experience. And I'm biased lmao.

                  And I don't even know where it is that I've said "I'm 100% sure that this is the correct explaination, here's your SCIENTIFIC proof: my experience". Now if this is what dumbshits want to understand 'cause it gives them an excuse to let their anger out on a forum while they satisfy their ridiculous need for attention that's their fucking problem. I said "In 6k fucking games I've noticed this and this is my thought about it, based on my experience". And I even added "Ideally it is the way you view it", which means it's fucking logical that low bhs people get matched with low bhs people, BUT to me it doesn't seem that it's always this the case because my experience etc. And the other reason was the gap between the number of very low bhs people and the number of high bhs people. Where the fuck did I state I hold the truth or that I was making only logical connections? The only thing I was doing was talking from experience without wanting to be right at all costs at all. Also 'cause what matters to me is that Valve confirmed the use of bhs and the existence of different pools and that these pieces of shit who've been trash talking for months now have to pretend they've always been open to the possibilty hidden pool exists LMAO. It's like kids on this forum use discussions to fill their ego and show the world how intellectually superior they are by twisting what another person actually says or mocking them. What a bunch of idiots.

                  The second part is mostly referred to that hopeless attention wh.ore who clearly joins the forum with the only purpose of playing the part of Nelson from the Simpsons. "HAA HAA" while pointing the finger at the people he focuses, the ones that feed his craving for attention by replying, "everyone look at these idiots, everyone agree with me, I'm gonna twist whatever they say to make it look like I'm much smarter and they're much more retarded". Dat cluster B personality, edgy kid. You're beyond pathetic.

                  This comment was edited
                  Jacked

                    lmao

                    Hatrið mun sigra

                      lolle

                      Riguma Borusu

                        And I believe that people who still think hidden pool doesn't exist are a bunch of low IQ monkeys who are so arrogant they think they know how the system works better than Valve itself, retarded kids who deny the statements made by a Valve developer, who go against what is explained in the updates about matchmaking.

                        The idea of hidden pool as you think of it neither makes sense, nor does it correlate to exactly what Valve stated.

                        That's your experience. You have no idea how many games I have played with dumbshits flaming each other from the picking phase for no reason, walking down mid if not given the lane they want, feeding endlessly 'cause just terrible, going retarded builds, going afk farming, with shadow amulets, blocking camps and shit.

                        No, I get games like that as well. Everyone does. And so does the enemy team. That's the point - if it happens in your team, it is bound to happen on the enemy team. Back when I kept track of shit like this (I abandon a lot so my BHS is pretty low), I counted the occurrences of people who have obviously given up on winning the game in some way. And guess what? The number of people on my team who did it was actually about 20% lower than the enemy team, EVEN with a small sample size. You know why? Because I play on my team as well. The reality is, even if your BH score is F (or like, around 2-3k back when it was a number), you are still less likely to get really terrible teammates than the enemy team is, because you are one out of 5 players on your team.

                        Not sometimes, too often to be normal.

                        According to what data? And can you say with certainty that this is not the case for the enemy team as well? A lot of team quarreling isn't even visible to the enemy team, so you can't even claim to know about this. Maybe they have been flaming each other since the picking phase, you just didn't see any of it.

                        And this makes you fucking question the whole thing.

                        You should question everything, but you should also try to be reasonable and objective. And realize that humans are prone to biases. Just as you question this, I questioned the idea that my teammates are worse than the enemy teammates. Despite low BHS and frequent abandons, I have deduced that the enemy players are no worse or better than my team on average. That's just my experience, of course, but until I get some hard data over thousands of matches with good heuristics, I can't claim to have better data than that. I have had games where I'd get emotional and blame my team for shit only to calm down later and realize I was in the wrong at some crucial part of the game. It happens. We are human. But once we distance ourselves from emotions and try to actually clearly analyze the situation, it often turns out the preconceived notions based on emotion were wrong.

                        And then you see other people can relate.

                        People can relate to the idea that the earth is flat, doesn't make it so. A plural of anecdote is not "data". And others who relate use the exact same fallacies as you do. Again, it's just human. Humans do that and think like that, so I can't blame anyone for thinking like that. But the fact is, when you try to analyze the whole situation from a distance, you see it as what it is: a bias. There are so many studies in psychology that cover this phenomenon that it isn't even funny. A lot of what people think they are experiencing in dota is, plainly put, just a terrible bias, and I should know because I thought like that too.

                        And then Valve itself confirms the existence of different pools. So what the fuck are we even talking about.

                        Yes, but different pools mean that you play against and with players of similar BHS, not low BHS vs high BHS, that wouldn't even make sense, when you consider that you are essentially playing in different POOLS.

                        People who get thrown into LPQ don't play single draft on their team against all pick non-lpq on the enemy team. Valve has made it clear what a POOL is. You aren't in a hidden pool. And if there was a thing called hidden pool, you'd be playing against other hidden pool'd people. You would not be at a disadvantage any more than they are. You wouldn't be playing against more competent teams.

                        And, again, experience is important here. How you analyze your experiences compared to actual data, however, is what matters. I have had horrible experiences with 10 lose streaks where I thought games were unwinnable. However, on average, I still had a high winrate and the ability to win games if I tried. On average, my teammates still weren't worse than the enemies. On average, I was still winning above 50% with a really low BHS. On average, my teammates weren't afking/feeding/abandoning any more than the enemies. On average, it didn't matter what I expected, all that mattered is that what happened on my team happened on the enemy team as well. Over the course of more than 3k games.

                        Btw, I was just poking fun with the "hidden pool" guy picking slark into axe and undying. Sure, some are like that. Some are not. But I was more so parodying your way of thinking and poking at the "all muted hidden pool" mentality you harbour, and you didn't even realize because you are finding it really hard to reflect on your ideas.

                        Also, I don't see why I am the attention wh0re, I am merely pointing out the obvious. In fact, I didn't start threads to rag on my teammates and ask everyone to agree with my preconceived notion that valve hates me. How am I the attention wh0re? Wouldn't that more so apply to people who go "guys valve hates pls agree with me I need it in my life"?

                        I don't care whether you agree with me or not, I am more so finding it puzzling that you don't understand how incoherent and backwards your logic is after ragging on with it for so long, not to mention it really looks like you're just looking for an excuse for your sub 50% winrate and the "more games than MMR, yet I play ranked" syndrome, which means you also have a motivation for this, which is not rooted in rational thought. It is also kind of psychotic and paranoid, reminds me of a lot of conspiracy theorists I know.

                        This comment was edited
                        Hatrið mun sigra

                          Absolutely, the thought about bias and subjective perception of things can't even be discussed 'cause it's a fact. That's why I always say "from my experience" when I formulate an opinion on this, which is also why I don't understand the random personal offenses.

                          Regarding the pool thing, like I said, of course low bhs people get matched with low bhs people and high with high. It's logical. What made me put into discussion the fact that this is the ONLY possible scenario is 1) the unbalance that you often see in game 2) the number of low bhs people compared to the number of high bhs people. The n.1 might have a different explaination, maybe the other team that's stomping is doing it not because they're actually nice and well coordinated but because since the game started well for them no toxic person in that team had a reason to throw or flame, sure. It is a possibily. My explaination was just a guess, supported by the n.2 thing.

                          "The idea of hidden pool as you think of it neither makes sense, nor does it correlate to exactly what Valve stated.", my idea was exactly the idea Valve has on matchmaking (low with low, high with high = fair game). I'm just trying to understand why a lot of games seem so unbalanced, that's it.

                          LOL don't worry, you're not the attention wh.ore I'm talking about. I was referring to diox. Unlike that dumbshit you seem genuinely capable of thinking.

                          And I can assure you my thoughts come from the will to understand why my game experience has changed so much over time and from a great sense of frustration for the enviroiment I'm forced to play into. I don't need excuses, also 'cause despite my 6k games I actually have only about 1-1.1k solo ranked games where I literally doubled my initial mmr. And even if I hadn't climbed I still wouldn't see the point in looking for excuses, it's a game and there's nothing to prove.

                          This comment was edited
                          BenaoLifedancer

                            Skill(Behavior)/Behavior = Constant

                            How fucking hard can it be to understand

                            Besides, as obviously at it seems,THIS:

                            Game((Skill(Behavior(m))*Behavior(m))(Behavior(m)))<>Game((Skill(Behavior(n))*Behavior(n))(Behavior(n)))

                            IS NOT CONCLUDED BY THE MASSES - You fucktards and valve included

                            This comment was edited
                            Riguma Borusu

                              Absolutely, the thought about bias and subjective perception of things can't even be discussed 'cause it's a fact. That's why I always say "from my experience" when I formulate an opinion on this, which is also why I don't understand the random personal offenses.

                              Yeah, I also state what is my experience, and what is more deeply analyzed data, so it's natural to separate the two. I actually use random personal offenses as a tongue-in-cheek thing, I don't really mean any of it. Most people aren't irredeemable or beacons of light, most of us are merely in the middle.

                              Regarding the pool thing, like I said, of course low bhs people get matched with low bhs people and high with high. It's logical.

                              Well, yeah, we agree on that, but a lot of people don't seem to. I am not only writing my posts for you to read, but for others who have way more outlandish ideas than you do.

                              What made me put into discussion the fact that this is the ONLY possible scenario is 1) the unbalance that you often see in game 2) the number of low bhs people compared to the number of high bhs people. The n.1 might have a different explaination, maybe the other team that's stomping is doing it not because they're actually nice and well coordinated but because since the game started well for them no toxic person in that team had a reason to throw or flame, sure. It is a possibily. My explaination was just a guess, supported by the n.2 thing.

                              Well, that is certainly something to ponder. See, the long queue times of low BHS can also be explained by the fact that there's less of us, and often there'll be an outlier in a game (like a B or C behavior score) in an avg D behavior score game. Usually this happens when the queue has been going for more than 10 minutes and the game started reducing its standards. What this means is that when a lot of people are queuing, you will get matched in less than 5 minutes no matter what, since even if you have F behavior score (like me) that means that with enough people you will be matched accordingly. But if the queue goes for 15 minutes, the game will just look for anyone it can throw into the game, so you end up with people with Bs and Cs. This is just my speculation, but it is the exact same way that MMR works too - it is perfectly normal for 7ks to play in 5k average games, but then there's either a lot of 5ks on the enemy team (and 7k has 4ks) or there's also a 7k player on the enemy team. If valve is utilizing its own model for BHS heuristics, that'd mean that it works as I described it.

                              But even if your BHS is, say, B, and you get thrown into an avg BHS = D game (since the low BHS queue went on for too long and the game has to match SOMEONE to be able to complete the queue), the teams will still average out to D. I believe this is how it works, based on my observations, and also the logic that valve uses.

                              "The idea of hidden pool as you think of it neither makes sense, nor does it correlate to exactly what Valve stated.", my idea was exactly the idea Valve has on matchmaking (low with low, high with high = fair game). I'm just trying to understand why a lot of games seem so unbalanced, that's it.

                              I have not experienced a lot of games being so unbalanced. Sometimes the enemy team will have dual mid or ragers, sometimes my team will. While it seems that there's some lack of balance on an occasion, it is never something that won't average out over 100 games.

                              LOL don't worry, you're not the attention wh.ore I'm talking about. I was referring to diox. Unlike that dumbshit you seem genuinely capable of thinking.

                              Oh, I didn't catch that.

                              And I can assure you my thoughts come from the will to understand why my game experience has changed so much over time and from a great sense of frustration for the enviroiment I'm forced to play into. I don't need excuses, also 'cause despite my 6k games I actually have only about 1-1.1k solo ranked games where I literally doubled my initial mmr. And even if I hadn't climbed I still wouldn't see the point in looking for excuses, it's a game and there's nothing to prove.

                              Well, that's the correct way to think about it. But I still think you need to observe this more analytically, or even try to gather some data. I know I have been duped in the past, by my low standards for what I'd consider proper data to analyze stuff from. Yet even if you gather some data, what you can get personally will be low sample size, but even low sample size has shown (in my experience) to be pretty good for determining some common factors.

                              This comment was edited
                              Hatrið mun sigra

                                "While it seems that there's some lack of balance on an occasion, it is never something that won't average out over 100 games." this is the only thing I really can't agree on. Talking from experience so of course I'm biased, but I guarantee it seems obvious to me. And my explaination for this is exactly the one you expressed about avg bhs/avg mmr and the method Valve uses to match players. It's like my team is made of 5 people with D bhs and the other team has a couple of D- bhs and then all C+s for example. Imo this is balanced only on paper, in reality the enemy team can play better and carry the feeder to victory, while my team isn't even interested in trying to cooperate. In the end it feels like playing 1v3. In fact, when it comes to ranked games and avg mmr if one team has, for example, 3 players with 3000 mmr + 2 players with 5000 mmr and the other team has 5 players with 4000 mmr the skills of the two teams theoretically will be the same, but actually what happens is, the 2 5ks will be able to win for the 3ks by simply outplaying the 4ks. I think that's what you meant and if it is, it's exactly what I was trying to explain. But this looks balanced only on paper.

                                Yeah, will try to stay more focused both in game and when analyzing the game experience for sure.

                                This comment was edited
                                BenaoLifedancer

                                  Out of 4 games where 2 are 99% lost and 2 are 99% won, you can call this balanced because hey, you win 50% of the time.

                                  That's you noobs and volvos logic

                                  Riguma Borusu

                                    Well if 4 games would be your data sample, we can call that Benao's logic.

                                    Riguma Borusu

                                      Some updates:

                                      Two games in a row:
                                      #1 jungle NP pick when we have really weak lanes, I pick lich to try to remedy the issue, but they have two invis heroes so I can't even afford boots because I have to get a ton of detection, ez abandon
                                      #2 lifestealer jungle into antimage + mk, jakiro (solo support) mutes everyone at the start of the game, ez abandon

                                      See, there's no problem with the pool with F behavior score. You just abandon all games with retarded people, then go play LPQ where everyone is trying to win really hard. Problem solved.

                                      I have F behavior score because I play for fun (which is why I don't play ranked), and I do not intend to finish games that I will not find fun at all. Meaning, I will abandon when there's a techies in the game, I will abandon when I am solo support vs strong lanes and there's no way we win the game (or I don't care to), I will abandon when someone decides they won't win at the start of the game ("all muted :)" "gg I afk" "I farm" when they pick a support) and so on.

                                      Still, since games take forever to queue with such a low BHS (which won't change because I keep abandoning), I am probably going to stop playing dota because it isn't fun nor do I consider it to be worth my time.

                                      This comment was edited
                                      🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩

                                        Due to Valve history probably just hid the number and just placed a letter to each number bracket rather than changing the system. so instead of 7k or whatever you get normal, instead of 1k you get F.

                                        https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/75yhw2/is_behaviour_score_normal_actually_the_worst/

                                        these threads are popping up everywhere, people simply have a confirmation bias.

                                        Those who want to believe the system is better will, those who want to blame the system won't.

                                        Neither will gain any change in mmr or game quality, because the problem is in their head rather than the system.

                                        This comment was edited
                                        Bungmangler

                                          looks like this a very touchy subject..... it has lots of people :thinking:

                                          Riguma Borusu

                                            One thing has definitely changed though, queue times, by a longshot.

                                            Hatrið mun sigra

                                              I have a very interesting update too.

                                              Played 4 ranked games this morning, one more wonderful than the other. But let's RATIONALLY and OBJECTIVELY analyze them, 1 by 1.

                                              1) First Pugna game. I pick Pugna after Skywrath, thinking "alright we got nice disables, it's gonna be a good game as pos 4". SURE. I end up playing pos 5 with that fucking retard Tusk who was JUNGLING bot instead of contesting their trilane top. So, after wasting 10 minutes doing NOTHING bot, he comes top. We fuck up their lane, everything is fine, I'm 1-1-7, Meepo gets fat and we push their t2 tower. Since we had NO CARRY besides Meepo, and a Pugna in the team, you'd think "so you pushed all the towers exploiting the good momentum and won". LMAO, WRONG. Skywrath gets SHADOW BLADE, the safelane Necro tells me to fuck off from his lane when I told him to push and goes for EUL and PIPE. FUCKING SAFELANE CARRY NECRO. After that all the team splits and tells me to go fuck myself when I tell them to fucking push. In the last minutes of the game BY MIRACLE the enemies are about to throw but no, why would we take the last t3 and racks and get megas when we can dive like fucking dipshits, die, let them get megas and end up late game vs a Drow and an Enchantress when we have NO FUCKING PHYSICAL DMG AND MEEPO BECAME USELESS. Lost.

                                              2) The second Pugna game. A retard in my team randoms and rerandoms Chen as first pick. "it's ok, he's strong in <5k" you'll think. But of course this fucking dog spends THE ENTIRE GAME jungling, using ulti TWICE in the entire game and then going AFK. My Necro was mid vs Tiny. Nice 1v1 for us, right? Nah, Lich goes mid to help Tiny so I leave my Luna 1v1 with WR to dual mid. We're still stronger. I'm forced to play pos 5 again, I get all the wards, give tangos to my Necro, we're still stronger. Too bad this fucking idiot manages to die EIGHT times mid. Tiny gets a shadow blade, I get all the sentries, tell my team to stick tho, 'cause he's constantly looking for kills. They do? Lmao, don't be silly. But of course not! They spend the entire game split, afk farming and getting picked off constantly. Everyone flames everyone, Chen keeps afking, Underlord afks and flames Necro, Necro keeps going ALONE and pushing waves too far and feed, Luna trash talks everyone. We lose another fucking game.

                                              But this can't last forever, right? I will win, I deserve to fucking climb this fucking trash mmr, I have more game sense, I know what to do in games. I will win.

                                              3) The Undying game. The guy who then picked Necro safelane didn't even know what to pick (nice game sense) and what items to get (nice knowledge about the fucking basics of the fucking game), but he listens to my suggestions and goes for the right items. Having to face a solo Clockwerk that I had already zoned out he gets fat and has radiance+treads+veil at min 22. Nice start! NAH. Invoker loses mid to Ember and retires to jungle afking, gets an ultra late midas and a late aghs, stating that the retarded Lion in my team came to his lane to steal his farm. The Weaver in the offlane gets "helped" by the above-mentioned retarded Lion that spends the entire laning phase diving, dying and stealing all Weaver's farm. Not even in 1k you see this shit, right? So I leave Necro that is doing more than fine and go help the offlane. We take the tower and start pushing. After the that my team, instead of pushing with the fat Necro and exploiting the nice dmg and combos we had, SPLITS. Entirely. Forever. I spent literally the entire game asking people to get Roshan and push, to pick off people and push, to do fucking something and push. No, never happened. Maybe once or twice. Long story short these fucking retarded dogs spend the game going in ALONE and dying like fucking idiots. We manage to get to their t3 but instead of focusing the tower, Lion dives under it with blink and the other dumbshits follow him. Everyone of course flames everyone. Necro doesn't even know when to fucking cast ulti (I swear to fucking god I had to explain his hp and mana restore when he kills an enemy, he had people low around him all fucking game and didn't ulti 'till I explained it). That one time my team FINALLY FUCKING DECIDES TO GET FUCKING ROSHAN after I said it for 30 minutes straight, a huge fight happens, the enemy CLOCKWERK gets the aegis and guess what. Yes, Necro decides to finally ULTI. On a low hp Clockwerk SURROUNDED BY US, WITH NO TEAMMATES, WITH AEGIS. After that shitshow the enemy team comes back, Ember has all the time in this world to get a fucking rapier and get megas, while the monkeys in my team were still busy going in alone and dying. AFTER THEY GOT MEGAS, my entire team decides to STICK. They did it, they gathered. When it was too fucking late. Of course we lose. Ah and I forgot to add that when they got megas Necro decided to not use bb and wrote in chat "I'm not using it, gl". We could have won if only these idiots had gathered, or if Necro had used bb, but do you really think I'm allowed to win? Let's be serious.

                                              4) Viper. Triggered as fuck, I decide to go fucking mid. I ask for 2 tangos to the russian CM that quickly makes things clear and offends me out of nowhere in russian and doesn't give them to me. The russian Bristleback steals my rune. Everything going as scripted by this fucking trash fucking ridiculous matchmaking. But no fear, Viper vs Necro is great, I manage even to zone him out from midlane, all is going fine. 'Till his support Jakiro and Nightstalker start camping mid, diving me FOUR TIMES 'TILL T2 AND BEYOND THE FUCKING LIMITS OF THE FUCKING UNIVERSE. And of course I had no vision mid. And of course fucking CM was too busy jungling. I was so mad I almost got a heart attack, and I still am, and stopped completely paying attention to the game. Necro gets an 18 minutes radiance, Bristleback feeds during the entire laning phase, I just go midas and go afk farming trying to come back. Necro gets shadow blade and kills me again. 'Cause why the fuck would we fucking get fucking vision am I right. Not that they had a fucking Nyx too. Nightstalker does his nightstalking job, their entire team sticks, ganks, takes objectives, I just have fucking dogs coming mid ONCE during the laning phase and even FEEDING FUCKING NECRO.

                                              That's it. Please, PLEASE I dare you, tell me this is not unbalanced. Please, I don't know what to fucking do anymore, I almost had a fucking stroke 'cause of these fucking retarded idiots. I'm gonna probably play all day long, if don't get my mmr back and more I'm gonna quit this dogshit game forever or make a new account 'cause the situation is beyond fucking ridiculous. And I swear I tried so hard to win, I fully supported 3 out of 4 games, I did all I fucking could but the truth is when you have to lose you have to fucking lose. And yes, fucking hidden pool fucking exists, I bet my fucking head it fucking does. I'm done, I don't give a fuck if this is too long and no one reads it. Have a fucking nice day everyone.

                                              This comment was edited
                                              Hatrið mun sigra

                                                Oh wait wait another interesting update. In the 5th game, the one I'm in, a dog last picked Huskar when we have no late game carry, into Necro and tons of physical damage. SF died 5 times mid. Clinkz is freefarming and our Nyx has abandoned the game 10 minutes in. This matchmaking is NOT UNBALANCED.

                                                Mlada i Luda

                                                  🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩 4 months ago
                                                  there's no such thing as behavior score/hidden pool giving you bad teammates, nor was it ever demonstrated nor proven.
                                                  it's just that idiots like these up here need any excuse, because dunning kruger hits hard.
                                                  The only thing it does is simply tell you how close you are to getting low prio due to reports/abandons.
                                                  There wouldn't be low priority if there was a hidden pool, nor has any evidence that BS is anything other than the score of how close you are to getting LP

                                                  Mlada i Luda

                                                    diox 3 months ago
                                                    Omg this is Gold to see how mafioso thinks. It's truly wonderful the mind of the delusional. He's actually happy and thinks this supports his theory which he is 100% sure of and proved through his experience. AYYFukkin lmao!
                                                    I don't know how one guy can struT in front of an entire forum making an ass of himself with his very obvious Low intelligence strings of thought and act like he's right. What the fuk lol

                                                    Friendly player

                                                      Matchmaking is so >
                                                      Instead of thinking that wind blows in one direction, you should think that it blows in different directions.

                                                      1K bs get matched with 1K bs.
                                                      First guy had a good day so he's not gonna feed and call everyone an idiot.
                                                      Second guy had a regular or terrible day so he's gonna feed and call everyone an idiot.

                                                      Friendly player

                                                        As rpq-sama said, it might be happening in the opposite team as well, you just don't see it.

                                                        dead

                                                          if you can't carry you team to victory no matter what your behavior score is
                                                          you deserve whatever mmr you have for your own incompetence

                                                          Riguma Borusu

                                                            in the last two games I abandoned (in the row), the opposite team had a support stealing farm from the carry (while we had an afk flaming jungler who lost us all the lanes), and in another game they had an afk jungler who flamed his team in all chat (where we had an afk jungler + support who said "mute all" at the start of the game so he didn't go to the correct lane)

                                                            my team was cancer too, but not more or less, it was kind of the exact same amount of cancer

                                                            so yeah, low BH gives you shit teammates, but also shit enemies

                                                            if you can't carry you team to victory no matter what your behavior score is
                                                            you deserve whatever mmr you have for your own incompetence

                                                            On average, this is correct, you might get some spikes here and there, but over the course of a good sample pool, this is going to be correct nonetheless.

                                                            This comment was edited
                                                            Mlada i Luda

                                                              🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩 4 months ago
                                                              there's no such thing as behavior score/hidden pool giving you bad teammates, nor was it ever demonstrated nor proven.
                                                              it's just that idiots like these up here need any excuse, because dunning kruger hits hard.
                                                              The only thing it does is simply tell you how close you are to getting low prio due to reports/abandons.
                                                              There wouldn't be low priority if there was a hidden pool, nor has any evidence that BS is anything other than the score of how close you are to getting LP

                                                              Hatrið mun sigra

                                                                @Bart Bot don't even waste your time mentioning these 2 cluster B dumbshits, at best they're "only" narcissists who don't even read what people write, they just wanna boost their tiny ego and fill the amazing world of dotabuff with their infinite knowledge by trying to make others seem stupid. And the only thing they talk about is the way you write 'cause they have fucking 0 arguments on the topic and got officially proven wrong by fucking Volvo itself. Anyway, whoever says all of this is normal is a fucking liar. It can happen once, out of 15-20 games, not for 5 games in a row. Not a word coming from the other team, not a "report this" "no wards", nothing. The other teams just played their game and adapted to the dumbshits I had in mine. Now after these 5 games I just played a game vs a bottle Invoker, an afk jungling Ursa and a Nightstalker who trash talked Voker and wrote in the all chat "road from 4900 to 3900". I just fucking pray to god it's my turn to be on the other side and get my mmr back. And even if it is the case, it's still fucking ridiculous that my wins/losses are based on what team gets more idiots. And climbing is almost impossible. Or even enjoying the game is impossible.

                                                                Friendly player

                                                                  ^^^^

                                                                  But there's still one thing i don't understand. Why are they not happy? If both teams are trash and you are in one of them, wouldn't it be easier to win?

                                                                  Riguma Borusu

                                                                    Cookie and Jacked have both downplayed the effect of BHS, but what is pretty certain so far is that BHS works both ways - both on allies and enemies, meaning that you cannot talk about shit teammates without considering shit enemies.

                                                                    Mlada i Luda

                                                                      @MATCHMAKING IS SO FUCKING..... brah , im have no intetnion at all on wasting my time on them anymore , i never cared about them actually , i dont give a shit at all about some deadbrain dunink kruger kids, i only enjoy having funn with them. thats why i only ironically copy paste those post, i mean i enjoy and laugh a lot with them with every post they make about bs. lul. i jsut want them to remember that at the time they did not even know that it exist, i used to knwo everything about ti in details , now i know even a lot more acutally , and 90% of the post people make about it doesnt make sense at all. lol.

                                                                      I won my " war" already , which is not to show those guys how retarded they are , i dont give a shit about it, i spoted them as duning kruger low iq kids honeslty at almost "retard level" since in the first post i made here about 6-7 months ago. my " war " was to help other guys here that were suffering and strugling to realise waht this bs is and how it affects them.
                                                                      i won that war already since a shit tons of kids, are now talking about it , my job is done. im now only enjoying my time making fun ocasionally with those kids that used to insult me back than, and the time prooved they being retard duning kruger , yeah maybe im abusing a lot this shit , i will keep abusing those kids i dont care , im heartles , i enjoy this shit XDDDDDD

                                                                      i actually dont read nothing what is said about bs from them , i jsut see them posting i can assume what "retarded idead " they might be writing lul.

                                                                      for everyone that actually needs help about something on bs, jsut read my old post, everything is explained in details, jsut completely ignore the " religion" they minority now like 1% or lees, they have to be left behind . law of nature , not mine sry XDDDDDDD

                                                                      This comment was edited
                                                                      Hatrið mun sigra

                                                                        Nvm, went back to being matched with dumbshits after that game. When it ends I will read.

                                                                        Coroner

                                                                          @bart bot What war have you won you stupid albanian fuck? Hiding 41% winrate smurfs that you barely have 4k on and that you get carried by picking stupid shit like wd/thd with average 15 deaths? I dont even want to mention that probably someone else calibrated those accounts instead of you.
                                                                          writing stupid nonsense? Saying that you dont care about those narcissists yet you are not capable of admitting that you are fucking wrong?
                                                                          THat thread 2 days ago you spend 20 posts discussing with a player that has 6k mmr and actually carries his own games about what should be done and what shouldnt in a game. Meanwhile your game history consists only barathrum, thd and witch doctor games with average 15 deaths. Congratz

                                                                          Mlada i Luda

                                                                            did' not read . XDDD .

                                                                            i dont read anything recently form the 1% whos been left behind XDDDD.

                                                                            This comment was edited
                                                                            Coroner

                                                                              @matchmaking is so fucking Look at your chats in the game. Please look what you are writing

                                                                              22:16
                                                                              Jakiro Jakiro: THE MOST RETARDED PIECES OF SHIT IVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE
                                                                              22:28
                                                                              Jakiro Jakiro: THE ENEMY TEAM GANKS AND CREATES SPACE FOR AM AND THEY AFK FARM SPLIT INSTEAD OF PUSHING
                                                                              23:36
                                                                              Crystal Maiden Crystal Maiden: )))
                                                                              23:46
                                                                              Pudge Pudge: u can end mid
                                                                              23:56
                                                                              Jakiro Jakiro: U CAN HANG URSELF

                                                                              Coroner

                                                                                26:14
                                                                                Jakiro Jakiro: HES A FUCKING BRAINDEAD WASTE OF CUM
                                                                                26:26
                                                                                Jakiro Jakiro: NAH I WANNA SMASH UR HEADS WITH A HAMEMR

                                                                                Coroner

                                                                                  If you think you deserve anything other than being matched with worthless scum, you are living in a big lie.

                                                                                  Hatrið mun sigra

                                                                                    @AM or feed Easier to win HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH but of course, try to fucking win as pos 5 almost always solo supporting a bunch of braindead handless dumbshits. So easy, so enjoyable. Let's talk about the last game where I 2nd picked Pugna and specifically asked for a hard supp and said I was gonna help with wards and the last guy picks Bloodseeker jungle, reason: eeeeh they have an AM!11!!1!ONE!11. Then the other team last picks Riki and buttfucks him with a cactus. I had this dumbshit at lvl 4 10 minutes in, who fed. I couldn't leave MK alone to rotate mid, where Voker was losing the lane to Necrophos and dying. I had barely the money to get boots 10 minutes in. And guess who got flamed and offended for not BEING ABLE TO BUY ALL THE WARDS AND SENTRIES IN THE WORLD AND BE IN 5 PLACES AT THE SAME TIME? ME. FUCKING ME. CAN YOU FUCKING BELIEVE THIS FUCKING WORTHLESS PIECES OF TRASH. So I decided to get only wards, no items, nothing. I didn't even have the money to fucking breathe. Lost. This game is so fucking dogshit, there are no other words to describe it. And I supported, I was nice, I asked politely, this game is just one fucking giant pile of shit.

                                                                                    Hatrið mun sigra

                                                                                      @Coroner after you have to stand these dogs every day every game you lose your mind. That's what they are, a bunch of wastes of cum. And no, I don't enter a game offending everyone. I do by first picking support or 2nd picking pos 4, by doing my job 'cause the only thing I want in this fucking trash game is improve and win. But if I get offended and my games are ruined by fucking idiots and I have to stand this situation for days, weeks and months I'm gonna fucking lose my mind.

                                                                                      This comment was edited
                                                                                      Coroner

                                                                                        Well then, whats wrong? If you are toxic player by yourself, whats wrong being matched with other toxic players??

                                                                                        Chiwa

                                                                                          Hatrið mun sigra

                                                                                            I'm not toxic by default, I never join games to go against my interests and ruin. I flame when people throw, offend or ruin and don't pretend you or anyone else wouldn't do the same thing.

                                                                                            Riguma Borusu

                                                                                              and don't pretend you or anyone else wouldn't do the same thing.

                                                                                              Well, they wouldn't and that's the difference. You might not realize this, but people approach the same scenarios differently. You don't have to flame and shittalk. Doing so just weakens your argument. When my jakiro said that we are all muted and he won't listen to anyone, I could have shittalked him in all chat or something. But I realized that I am among people who just don't want to win, so I didn't want to win either. But I didn't shittalk or flame, I just said "alright then, I have a solution for this" and abandoned, because that game would essentially be a waste of my time.

                                                                                              Hatrið mun sigra

                                                                                                And I understand, fine. But you're able to avoid flaming when it's ONE game ruined, when every once in a while a fucking idiot walks down mid, you lose 25 mmr but you know you'll get them back. You can't avoid it when EVERY GAME, I swear to god every game has at least 3 people who are utter trash and completely braindead. And not only do they play like shit, they don't even listen to polite suggestions, they even blame and offend everyone. The truth is, getting out of this trash is impossible. No matter how hard you try to be nice and support and play well you just can't fucking get out. Who has the mental strenght to stand idiots who play like trash, ruin your games and even offend you. Every game, that's the thing you're missing.

                                                                                                This comment was edited
                                                                                                Friendly player

                                                                                                  Dota has became such a game that people who can't hold their anger and play for 25 mmr points have a bad time playing it. Plus there's so many tutorials how to be positive, so really if you just can't stop calling your teammates retard feeders, then the best thing you could do is to leave, just quit already.

                                                                                                  Riguma Borusu

                                                                                                    Have you tried not having such a low BHS?

                                                                                                    Why is your BHS so low?

                                                                                                    I know why mine is, I just abandon a lot, and give up in extreme cases, so I get some reports that way. But then I can't blame the system since I am the part of the problem, why don't you realize you are, as well?

                                                                                                    chicken spook,,,,

                                                                                                      Rant essays, oh boy