General Discussion

General DiscussionYour honest opinion on Legend-tier players.

Your honest opinion on Legend-tier players. in General Discussion
Emperor Xu Mail

    There is a lot of eliticism in this forum and for good reason, if I were a good player, I'd damn well brag about it too. But such as it is, the majority of dota players are in Archon-Legend tier. So I think, personally, a legend player is neither good nor atrociously bad. But being a legend myself I cannot attest to my own statement with any amount of certainty. Therefore, my question to this forum is, from where you are at now (rank/medal), what do you think about dota's middle children, the legends of 3k?

    Rocket

      Legends tend to know what they are supposed to do but don't know why they do it or when/how to diverge from their cookie-cutter build/playstyle.

      Archon are the same but much worse at executing what they are trying to achieve.

      SASA POPOVIC

        Common sense: 3k is average person MMR, people who have jobs/family and cant afford more than 10-15 games per week. Bads are bellow NEETs and hardcore veterans are 4k +

        Grimm

          if i see a "hardcore veteran" only at 4k i'd consider him to be really bad

          Gard Pedersen

            IM HARDECORE VETERAN XD

            SASA POPOVIC

              By a hardcore veteran i didnt ment him to be dota god, just that his lifestyle alows him to afford more that 20-30 games per week for a long period of time. So he has space to improve etc.

              Because you know, basic formula to be good at something is time + effort invested into it. There are people who have 2k+ games but still orbit around 2k mmr they have time but cba to put effort or research into their time, i mean you get the point.

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              19

                trash,brain damaged players.

                Quartermistress

                  We all fucking suck and too many of us think we're good at the game.

                  Jacked

                    3k is already above average if we can trust all the data simulations that have been done in the past.

                    3ks already know a lot more about the game than is healthy. There's so much to learn from the game, smaller and smaller things the higher you go. 3k I would honestly classify as understanding some advanced concepts of Dota. They are not Super bad at last hitting. Can sometimes understand how resources should be distributed, how to take action as a team, lane equilibrium, split pushing or fighting. All pretty advanced concepts honestly. Most casuals wouldn't bother learning or knowing all this.

                    4ks and above start to understand really indescribable nuggets of game knowledge that is really shameful if you think about it. So let's not go there.

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                    Väinämöinen

                      The skill of legend players is really inconsistent.

                      sometimes i see people that actually play like 1k (necro brown boots dagon 5, supports that buy brown boots aghs etc) and there are players that kind of understand stuff like where to move on the map when and how to push/take rosh etc.

                      its like in 3k you have the 12 year olds that play dota like fps and dont even watch the minimap and then you have dudes that started to understand that dota is very strategic and every action is important so they start to learn stuff. (doesnt mean they're good at it, but at least they think about other stuff than hitting neutrals and getting 6slotted)

                      add smurfs with 100 games and 37% winrate or acc buyers etc (every second game has at least one of them) and you have a very weird bracket.
                      (this dude for example https://www.dotabuff.com/players/380871522)

                      climbing in 3k at the range of 3.5k is flipping a coin, thats why when they arrive in 4k they are dead inside and toxic AF.

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                      Javad

                        Good and bad are subjective

                        Every person has his own experience through each bracket.

                        Each person is "good" at something and "bad" at something else

                        (Slacks is 5k btw, all he's good at is hype and communication, not even good strategy)

                        U grind based on what you're good at. The lower on mmr scale u are it means u didn't get REALLY good at some specific stuff, so much so that they would push you up.

                        So i'd say this bracket stuff is just showing how much someone focused on getting good at some specific stuff.

                        Now from my experience 1k and 2k is full of people who dunno much about how the game works. 3k and 4k is full of jack of all trades. They might know stuff they might not, but they're not particularly good at some stuff it's just all over the place.

                        Cursed

                          not good at everything.

                          verified vexillophile

                            Legends make less mistakes than Archons and make more mistakes than ancient players. Dota is literally just a game of mistakes. Understanding why and how you do things in dota makes you a better player.

                            flourishing new leaf

                              Fuck it's hard to rank up in this range. There is almost no difference with 4k. Just ruiners everywhere and too often

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                              Jacked

                                Lol. It's not hard. It's only hard because you belong there.

                                Jacked

                                  I like that analogy about mistakes. But it's not just about mistakes. It's also about opportunities missed. The worse u are the more opportunities you miss. So you may not actually make a mistake directly, but you may forgo an opportunity to get kills and objectives.

                                  Cashmere

                                    Legend 5 to Ancient 5 is like the easiest range to climb in. They all make the same mistakes and are easy to capitalize on. The only time games get mildly difficult is when there is another smurf on the enemy team and they actually know that they should split push when they are behind and they distract my team from taking objectives.

                                    Talker

                                      I started as 2.2k as somebody who had few hundred hours on dota 1. That is something, where you can last hit decently, have understanding of majority of heroes and know, which hero has some advantage (basic ones).

                                      3k is something, where arrives understanding of the game, ability to play your role decently and know what to pick, how to play the hero. I would say that the main difference between 3k and 4k is consistency and decision making. While 3k can win/draw lane with advantageous pick, 4k will just use small things to turn things around and at the end gain the edge.

                                      I would say that what is still pretty bad on my level (3.5-4k) is moving from personal decision making to group decision making - draft is sometimes shit (lastpick hero who doesnt fit into the lineup, because team is not coordinated), not using strenghts of the team when needed (one person not joining team), bad coordination in fights and with movement, bad discipline (keeping the same playstyle after rosh).

                                      La Joya

                                        We think we are ancient at least but in fact just better version of archons

                                        Hupples

                                          Since Legend is about as high as one can calibrate it has very inconsistent player knowledge and skill. Some Legends have a lot of game knowledge but poor mechanics, some have good mechanics but poor understanding, others are just Zeus/Spectre spammers who actually belong in Archon or lower.

                                          michael sassbender

                                            legends think theyre good and know what theyre doing cause they are above avg mmr, but they're always trash

                                            GTX

                                              i'm legend and i'm sucks.

                                              9'Mill

                                                Way better than the divine players on my games

                                                ETd

                                                  Can't generalize, between all the smurfs, buyers, and people getting to legend via party MMR, this bracket is highly volatile, and thus can't draw specific conclusions

                                                  Semeone just killed you fool

                                                    I'm too good in my Bracket, if you gonna ask me but I suck for guys above me 😂

                                                    Vertoxity

                                                      It's decent. Better than the average, for sure.

                                                      Davemon

                                                        Jack of all trades, you may win the lottery with other 4 players that know what they are doing or you may just get a support walking in your lane drawing aggro and messing up lane equilibrium, just so that 50 minutes later he finally has his brown boots and aghs. Game's hard mate.

                                                        IMDone

                                                          people bought accounts/boosted to get there since legend 2-3 is about the calibration max level.

                                                          Choke on your sanctimony

                                                            As an archon and someone who plays regularly with a legend player friend ill tell you,

                                                            Archon players really lack mechanical skills, I am not boasting when i say i actually have better mechanical skills compared to my fellow bracketeers ( because of the heroes i decided to spam) but i suck at farming efficiently early game and in dominating lanes, especially in a 1v1 bad matchup ( i mostly play mid or roaming supports). In archon the objective taking and decision making is really bad. I once played this BP game that gives higher mmr if we win, i was ember, we were slow seiging enemy base,got 1 set racks, i just went to bottle regen using BoT & ult and my team dived tier 4 for kills and all died. The enemy team ( being higher mmr than us) immediately capitalised, took rosh and we were on a backfoot from then on, and we lost eventually.

                                                            In legend, they are better than archon in all these aspects. I feel carry players play much better than archon but supports need to improve. Everyone plays carry respectably well, some play really well, but rarely you find a support of same quality. I'd say if i can improve my farming and lane domination i can climb to legend mostly, above that requires much detailed knowledge of the game. Also, Smoke ganks and better warding is what makes another big difference between ancient and legend players.

                                                            All this is from the perspective of an archon, so please dont flame :) u might have a different, correct opinion about this.

                                                            Mid crusader and below medal holders simply don't know what a ward, ghost scepter, eul's scepter, glimmer, forcestaff etc can do.