General Discussion

General DiscussionAn Axe / Offlane Question

An Axe / Offlane Question in General Discussion
RosHan Solo

    Leave the Archon III / Scrub-Bracket prejudice at the door please (genuine advice requested).

    So, I've had reasonable success with Axe (ignoring my current 3 game loss, I've won more than I've lost as Axe recently) however I know my biggest weakness is I die WAY too much. Assuming the other lanes don't get stomped, I'm pretty good at over-turning the 1-5 into a positive KD.

    The Question: Let's say offlane is a grim time for Axe/Offlaner - range hero + support with a good stun - at what point do you consider abandoning the lane and moving to jungle? Do you wait till 0-2, 0-3, 0-4 etc.?*

    *Assuming I've requested for a rotation with no impact and soaking exp. is a no-go since they are denying most creeps and their support knows if you slightly overcommit you're dead.

    - Thanks in advance (obviously above is applicable to any offlaner)

    .eXceL

      How do you even get to 1-5 as axe? You should be absolutely bullying enemy safe lane with his insane Regen.

      My tip would be don’t get into that situation in the first place; there is literally no support that can solo zone you out at the early levels.

      пидарас начуи 

        Basically with Axe your goal is to take away as much farm from the carry as absolutely possible. Same with any offlane really, but Axe is able to do it best.

        If you're against a melee core, don't let them walk up to the wave unpunished, make them take damage of any kind. If they are dumb enough to walk up to a wave under their own creeps, call them with their creeps and they'll either die or be forced to back and regen.

        If you're against a ranged carry, and you cannot out harass them, try cutting the wave behind the tower. Doing this will force your creeps under their tower causing them to have to choose between tanking an entire wave for CS or retreating further back and missing out on last hits. Biggest advice with this is not to get over confident, you're not by any means invincible.

        The biggest threat for ranged carries against Axe is his ability to get an early blink because of how quickly he is able to farm compared to other offlane heroes. If you can get your blink at a fairly quick time you have the ability to completely take said ranged carry out of the game by constantly roaming with a support and finding them in jungle farming or in lanes doing the same.

        TL:DR - Take farm away from the other carry, either by punishing them for walking up or cutting waves. This should be your goal for the entire game, not just laning phase, the mantra for offlane is "take the carry out of the damn game". Make them hate you because of how often you're deliberately hunting them down and killing them.

        crwdns1299:0crwdne1299:0
        MATCHMAKING IS SO FUCKING...

          ^Heroes like Lina and Skywrath are annoying enough to force you to go back tho. One has range and the other one spammable abilities. Idk if I see that I really can't stay in lane I go jungle asap. Jungle is trash atm but it's better than not being able to get any cs and the one thing you can't fuck up with Axe is missing blink and blademail timing.

          Tribo(RecoveryDays)

            Well you don't pick axe into sky if you're 1v2^

            You start the lane with 1 stout, 6x tangoes, 1 salve and 2x branches.
            You get brown boots first then complete the magic wand. The next item depends on enemy's lineup(tranquil for an early blink or vanguard/hood into blink or, if u are having a free lane u buy straight blink).

            ------------
            Skill build
            ------------
            2-3-3-1-2-4 and then max 3rd followed by 1st.
            Talents:
            8 str lvl 10
            3 mana regen lvl 15
            20hp reg lvl 20

            ----------
            Laning stage
            ----------
            At lvl 1 you should spam your 2nd on enemy support it will prevent him from attacking you + you have to creep aggro to avoid denies.
            At lvl 2 you can easily dive them and secure first blood if you're paired with a ranged pos 4(aoe disable/stunner)
            Try pushing the wave if enemy safelaner is a weak hero for instance Drow Ranger or Slark
            At lvl 4/5 repeat the above tips. By that time you should have secured at least 3 kills and merely 1 death.
            The next thing to be secured are 5 min mark runes.

            crwdns1299:0crwdne1299:0
            RosHan Solo

              @ Microsoft.eXceL
              Sorry what i mean is if you are solo Offlane and theres say a slark+WD/SS then it can be quite easy to get picked off with a little bad positioning (more often than not in my bracket the roamer seems it a better idea to gank the enemy offlane than their core)

              @ Raging bull
              Agreed but more often than not you don't get that luxury when you have to pick 1st-3rd depending on if your team are still rolling for carry. Jungle is trash but like you say, better than nothing. What do you consider perfect timings for blink and blademail?

              @ Tribo
              Happy with that build as it similar to what i usually go for however i would usually have a mango - thoughts? But otherwise all your other comments look good and worth me trying to implement.

              All - appreciate the advice thus far :)

              zFear

                @roshan solo
                early deaths dont mean much. if u give up a death but the opponent pushes the lane out, its a favourable trade. u can consider ncing when the lane is near their tower. your job is probably to make the lane as chaotic as possible, not allowing their safelane to control the lane with minimum resources (their supports).
                other axe tips include leveling skill 2 at lvl 1, spamming it on enemy carry when there are no creeps low hp. note that 2nd skill gives u movement speed and hence allows for some rushing to their face harassment, great for disrupting and controlling creep aggro too.
                u can nc, but if their supports are not in lane, u should be in lane. if their supports are not in lane, this allows them to roam other lanes which cause your other lanes to lose as well which is a recipe for a loss.
                just a divine 5 thinking of the game

                Tribo(RecoveryDays)

                  Did you really need to sign off like this^ xd?

                  crwdns1299:0crwdne1299:0
                  .eXceL

                    Yes because you're only divine 4 you noob!

                    and I'm even worse way down here at divine 3.

                    Mayushii desu!

                      sad reakts only

                      Tribo(RecoveryDays)

                        F

                        IT'S YAH BOI

                          Cut the wave. Force rotations, you are not meant to solo carry the game, just disrupt the game as much as possible. Stout shield, tons of regen and a ward and you should be fine. W the offlane support and afk run at the enemy carry.
                          ALSO NEVER GO VANGAURD FIRST ITEM. Game losing if you do, always blink first regardless of the game. There are times when you can w the enemy carry, but if you w the sups usually they will leave you alone and focus on denying rather than zoning you out.

                          crwdns1299:0crwdne1299:0
                          Androgynous

                            almost every player on the axe guides goes vanguard into blink. 2 went hood into blink instead and only one went blink first major item though it was a mid lane axe.

                            just the ring of health lets u stay in lane and you win the lane through attrition, you out trade the enemy with spin / battle hunger. then vanguard for creep skipping and farming the camps next to the enemy safe lane and it pays for itself pretty much. in your recent games u got a 15 min blink first item whereas people who often go vanguard first get it on top of a blink around 15 minutes. vanguard used to be a noob-trap item back in the day but with the importance of the laning stage right now it's much better.

                            just a divine 1 thinking of the game :^)

                            red days are temporary

                              dont listen to the legend, vanguard first before blink, dont build tranquil waste of money build phase boots or stick to brown boots, usually my item progression is ring of health > phase boots > blink, axe is a straight hero, you call you cull.

                              Tribo(RecoveryDays)

                                Y'all trash consider kys

                                RosHan Solo

                                  Guys appreciate all the advice given above. Interestingly, vanguard before blink was a solid shout just for the sustain (obviously need to tailor that to hood if there is a heavy spellcaster).

                                  @ $trk
                                  See i like the tranquils for the re-engagement and sustain but perhaps should consider phase more.

                                  Ultimately the advice above did allow me to shutdown a morph+lion combo early game with constant harassing the lion with BH (last game) so if anything, this post has gained me +25 MMR ... thanks! Now just to work on the rest of my gameplay...

                                  Grimm

                                    vanguard before blink is only good if you can monopolyze your lane.
                                    If not, get a blink and go roam to get some kills and help your team.

                                    MARLAN

                                      Axe gets spanked vs most 1v2 lineups assuming they aren't retarded.

                                      But Axe+1 is usually extremely strong, so I don't know how you're losing your lanes.

                                      Also, since you're low skill, your opponents are too, and you should be able to win 1v2 as Axe if you play well.

                                      HanYolo

                                        dying way too much. it's thinking your invincible syndrome. like how i see some bristle back players play (Esp in lower bracket). you have a tanky hero so u play way too aggressive.

                                        mostly it is just laning skill. pretty sure you just take a lot of unnecessary damage as you try to run in for a call